14 Sep 2023 Podcast: Deep Dive – Let’s talk about debt (consolidation), baby!
In this solo episode, Evelyn is talking about debt (consolidation), baby!
Debt consolidation can be a handy way to help pay off your consumer loans faster, but it can also have some pretty significant negative impacts if not done correctly.
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Evelyn starts today’s episode by giving us the lowdown on what’s happening in the property and finance scene and dives into the buzz around bridging finance. Evelyn then breaks down debt consolidation and brings clarity to its potential long-term implications.
Finally, she shares the “snowball” strategy as a different method of paying off debt, opening up the world of compound interest – including how it can work for and against you.
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Podcast Audio Transcript
(00:03.618) Good morning everyone or good afternoon, good evening, depending on when you’re listening to this episode and where you are in the world. I am currently sitting in.
(00:16.494) For me, it is 9.30 on a Monday morning in Melbourne, but I hope wherever you are, you’re having a fantastic day. Today, I have a fun episode on debt consolidation. We’re gonna talk about all things paying off debts faster. Now this episode comes with a massive caveat and disclaimer, which is this is not financial advice. I am giving you some strategies from experience as a mortgage broker and some general advice as to what you can consider.
But obviously, as always, consult your financial specialist yourself and make sure that whatever you’re doing is suitable for your circumstances. This is just general advice.
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Part 2
(00:01.538) Good morning, everyone. Welcome back from wherever you are this morning or today. I hope you’re having a fantastic day. Today, we have a podcast on debt consolidation. It’s something that often keeps a lot of people up at night, the topic of debt.
So what we really wanna do today is take you through a couple of strategies that can help you pay off your debts faster, but also to fully understand how these strategies work so that you’re not getting yourself into something that is potentially going to be more of a detriment to paying off your debts than something that’s going to actually assist.
And that’s the fact of compound interest. So whilst compound interest can work fantastically for us, if we do just consolidate debts without understanding what compound interest can do in the negative sense, then you may end up paying more interest over the life of your loan. So I’m gonna take you through a couple of different strategies and topics today.
But before we do that, I thought we’d just jump into a little bit of an update on where we’re currently at in the property and finance market. Today is a Monday that I’m recording this podcast. You’ll be hearing this episode on the Thursday when it comes out. Last week we had the RBA announcement and they decided to leave the cash rate on hold, which is fantastic.
Now, last week I also shared a podcast episode on bridging finance, and I thought that was a nice little segue into what we’re currently seeing in the marketplace. Bridging finance is not really something that we’ve seen a lot of over the last two or three years when interest rates have been significantly low. And part of the reason that I feel that has happened is because debt has been a lot cheaper.
It’s been a lot easier for people to hold multiple properties. And when people have been looking to upgrade their property, or, you know, purchase either their next PPR and retain their existing as an investment or buy multiple investment properties, we’ve seen that people have been able to hold both. So they’ve been able to buy a new property and convert their existing to an investment. And that’s a fantastic strategy if it obviously aligns with your ongoing and long-term financial goals. However, it’s not going to be something that obviously suits everyone. And a lot of people do just want to sell and buy as well.
(02:17.286) As rates have gone up and as property is obviously becoming more expensive to retain, I’ve seen a lot of investors talking about it, you know, and sort of questioning now, is there much point being a residential property investor in Australia at the moment? And I do make a very specific point about residential property as opposed to commercial, because on top of the actual holding of the property and paying the interest costs, you’ve got all of your council rates, land tax, your water charges and all of these associated costs are also becoming more and more expensive.
So in terms of the actual net rental income that you receive on a property, it’s generally not going to be enough to cover all of those outgoings anymore. And whilst that can be a strategy to minimize your tax, if you are negatively geared, which effectively means that the costs associated with holding the property are higher than the rental income that you receive from it, that will create a negative cash flow in your tax return. It isn’t obviously everyone’s strategy and a lot of people buy properties for positive, positively geared or positive cash flow return. And we’re not seeing a lot of that at the moment.
If you think about it from even an interest perspective, if your interest rate is sitting at something around the six or even seven, seven and a half percent mark, we’re seeing now for a lot of interest only investment loans, you’re going to need to be earning a net rental yield higher than that to just about cover your ongoing interest expense.
And a lot of the reason around that is because a lot of people use equity or the value in other properties to assist them with paying the associated costs and deposit on an investment property. So often we don’t just see that people are borrowing 80% and against an investment property. In some cases, people are borrowing 100%, even 110% of the costs associated with buying that property.
And so if you want a property that’s going to be achieving positive cashflow, your rental income needs to be exceeding all of the borrowing costs and the property holding costs against that. So we are definitely seeing a lot of, well, I’m certainly starting to hear a lot of questioning around holding residential property. But as a part of that, we’re also seeing that
(04:34.482) instead of people purchasing their next PPR and converting their existing PPR into an investment, people are wanting to offload that existing property. And therefore that’s where we’re seeing a lot of bridging finance starting to come into being requested because people need to have an understanding of exactly how much cash they’re going to have left over from their sale in order to buy, or they need some sort of, I’ll just cut out that last sentence actually, just after I said bye.
Um.
(05:09.802) And that’s where Bridging Finance can come in for them because it gives them a period of time in which they can put a property up for sale and make sure that they’re getting the price that they need in order to secure the property that they want long-term. So that’s definitely one shift that I have seen in the marketplace. And the other big one, if the economy keeps going the way that it is and interest rates keep going the way that it is, and not even if the interest rates keep going up, but even at the rate that they are.
We will probably see a lag in flow on effects from where people have experienced higher interest rates versus the lag effect of their spending patterns changing or their income potentially not rising at the same proportion, et cetera. And so as a result of that, people may be able to sustain themselves for one, two, three, four, five months, but over the long term, if they’re already tapping into their savings to pay off debts they’re going to start diminishing those savings.
And that’s where we might see things like additional credit cards being applied for, people looking to buy now pay later on certain items. Furniture is a fantastic example where people often buy things on interest-free terms and then realize at the end that they need to pay that off as a lump sum. Things like even vehicle finance where people don’t save up and use their cash to pay for a vehicle, but they actually finance it because they need to keep more of a savings buffer for any other potential, or we often like to call it an emergency fund, or there’s lots of different names for it
(06:51.99) that needs a bit of adjusting, whatever I just said then anyway. And so as a result, I will not be surprised if we do start to see some more questioning around debt consolidation and how people can potentially bundle their debts into one more manageable repayment as opposed to paying off, you know, potentially three or four credit cards if people have had to take out more consumer debt, we call it. Consumer debt is effectively where there is not an asset at the end of that debt or it’s not being financed against an asset.
So a home loan, for example, is not consumer debt because it is financed against a property and generally a car loan. It is typically can be considered consumer debt because you are by, you are borrowing those funds in your personal name. However, generally when we refer to consumer debt, we’re talking about something that doesn’t actually have an asset that you’re financing that debt against.
And so, the rise of consumer debt is typically something that does come with increased interest rates. And unfortunately, it’s not really a cycle that you want to get into. So what I wanna do today is start by breaking down what is debt consolidation and why should it matter to you? And then we’re gonna talk about a couple of strategies around paying off your debts faster. So what is debt consolidation?
Effectively, it involves rolling multiple debts, such as credit cards or personal loans, even car loans, into a single more manageable loan with a lower interest rate. Now, you wouldn’t do debt consolidation if it had a higher interest rate because that would defeat the purpose of it. But effectively what it’s doing is if you’ve got multiple loans, you can bundle them into one against a lower rate product and therefore have a lower interest rate to pay on all of those loans combined.
It also means that you’re only paying one repayment instead of potentially four or five. So you can obviously see already without me listing the pros and cons that there are definitely positives towards debt consolidation. One other factor to consider is that people will often consolidate debts into their mortgage because typically home loans or property finance will have the lowest rates out of the different types of finance on offer. And sometimes they’re not too dissimilar to car loans or asset finance
(09:14.466) depending on the type of asset that you’re buying. But typically mortgages or home loans will have the lowest interest rates. So let’s use an example to give an idea of how this can actually work. For example, if you had, let’s say you had three debts, you’ve got a $10,000 credit card sitting in an interest rate of about 20%. Now, one question I have is how many of you actually know what the rate of interest is on your credit card? And the second question is how many of you pay that off religiously before the interest is actually due on the card, so paying it off during that interest free period.
Do you even know what the interest free period is on the card? And are you paying fees on the credit card? So there’s some questions to have a think about first of all, in terms of actually managing your existing credit card. I personally do not have a single credit card, not even in my personal name or business. You know, I’m not saying that no one should have a credit card. However, what I am saying is that you need to understand how your money psychology works and look at effectively, you know, if you’re not someone that’s…
However, what I am saying is you need to do what works for you and for me, I just don’t want the temptation of paying with a credit card where I could potentially get stuck with interest that I do not wanna pay. So let’s say you’ve got that $10,000 credit card with a rate of a 20% interest. So let’s say you’ve got that $10,000 credit card with a 20% interest rate and you’ve got a 15% personal loan with an interest rate of 12%. Now maybe you use that personal loan
(10:56.834) to get some things done around the house. And let’s say you’ve got a mortgage left with about $500,000 owing on a rate of 6%. So your total debt outstanding is 625,000, but some of that you’re paying 12%, some of that you’re paying 20%, some of that you’re paying 6% on. If you decide to refinance your mortgage and consolidate your debts, you roll the $10,000 credit card and the $15,000 personal loan into your mortgage.
You now have a total debt outstanding of 625,000. So the exact same amount outstanding. However, you’re now paying 6% across all three of those debts. And so that will make your monthly repayments a lot less because number one, you’re lowering the interest rate. But remember, mortgages typically have a longer period than something like a personal loan, which might only be five up to seven years, yeah, between five and seven years are the longest loan terms for a personal loan.
So a mortgage, which is sitting at 20 to 30 years as an example, will have a lower rate of repayments. Now that is the catch that we need to actually play, that we need to have a really, really keen interest on because if you’re not aware of that extended term, that’s where you will pay more over the life of the loan. So, the pro that we have in this scenario is we’ve wrapped all of the debts into one. It helps you saving on a month to month basis from a cashflow perspective, and it also gives you a lower interest rate on those existing loans that had a far higher interest rate.
So what we do need to be aware of is by rolling the credit card and the personal loan into your mortgage, if you extended the repayment period, so instead of paying off those debts in potentially just a few years left, you’re now looking at paying them off over the remaining life of your mortgage, which could be 20, 25 or 30 years as an example. Compound interest is here then working against you on those two debts that you rolled into the mortgage, meaning that you end up paying more interest over the life of the loan, even if their monthly repayments are lower.
(13:06.806) So it’s a bit of a one that you need to think about clearly because it’s almost like that instant gratification of, oh great, my repayments are lower, but the delayed impacts can be significant. And it can be, I’m talking like tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars more. So if you are looking to consolidate debts into your mortgage, one of the things that I would consider is, can you split off those two debts that you wanted to consolidate into a separate split against your property? So keeping your mortgage at that $600,000 loan, let’s say still on its 20 year loan term. But for the 10,000 and the $15,000 loans that you consolidated in, could you create a secondary loan split? So that $25,000 loan amount. And could you either bring that down to a 10 year term?
Or could you take the existing minimum repayments from the credit card and the personal loan that you were already paying and start paying those at an accelerated rate on the $25,000 loan? What you’re then going to see is you start paying that $25,000 loan off at a far increased a repayment term or a repayment cycle. What you’re then going to see is that you start paying off that $25,000 loan split at a far accelerated repayment amount, which means it’s going to bring down the debt even faster. And why this is really beneficial is because now you’re actually taking advantage of that 6% interest rate.
Whereas before you weren’t really getting any benefit from the 6% interest rate if you just pay the minimum repayments from a residential mortgage perspective. So if you can continue paying the required repayment that you were already making, but on the lower interest rate, that’s where you’ll actually get benefit from the debt consolidation. Now, obviously in order to do that, there is a lot of discipline and psychology around making sure that you continue to pay that off and you don’t get relaxed around having a minimum repayment that’s a lot easier and nicer and gives you more disposable income.
(15:23.01) So that’s my first, let’s call it a rant on debt consolidation. But I really, really want to show you the benefits that it can have, but also the big impact that it can have on your long-term if you don’t do it correctly. And if you don’t get into the habit of making the existing repayments, it’s like anything with a habit. As soon as you let that slip once, it’s much, much easier to let it slip again. When we’re building habits, the more momentum that we can get and the more positive reinforcement we can effectively tie to the habit creation.
So for example, paying off more into the $25,000 loan split, the more that we can continue to do that and start to create small money wins for ourself, the more likely we will be to continue to do that. But if we let that slip once, it’s much easier for us from a psychological perspective to let it slip again. And then the second time we let it slip, it’s easier to let it slip again, until you’ve dropped down to the minimum repayment and now you’re paying more interest over the longterm.
And little things will start to play into effect in terms of our mind where we start to almost substantiate what’s going on. We say, oh, it’s okay, I’ve got this expense come up. So if I have to let that one payment slip, it’s all right. No, if you’re committing to debt consolidation the correct way, you need to commit. All right.
Let’s have a look at another method if debt consolidation is not for you and you don’t have that discipline to be able to continue making that repayment at the extra level without worrying about letting that slip. I wanna talk about something that can be referred to as the snowball method of debt repayments. Now just remember that there are so many different methods but I really just wanted to highlight two to you today.
So for the snowball method, this is where we start small and we start to get some positive money psychology happening by celebrating small wins on our debts. And eventually we increase the snowball of our repayment cycle more and more and more until we’ve paid everything off. So if you visualize a snowball rolling down the hill, we know that it gathers more and more snow as it becomes bigger and more powerful. So that’s what we’re channeling when we’re looking at this depth snowball method.
(17:47.19) So what happens is first of all, you list out all of your debts from smallest to largest. You list the minimum repayments against all of those debts as well. The most important thing is that you continue making the minimum repayments on each of those debts from day one, but with the smallest debt that we currently have outstanding, we’re going to attack that one first. So we’re gonna put any extra money that you can spare towards paying off that smallest debt first and commit to that and just keep paying it off until you have fully paid off that smaller debt, then close it out and celebrate your victory.
So this is why we start with the smallest one first because it gives us that first win and it’s crucial for the psychology behind why we do this method. So as I said, let’s go back to the start. So step one, list out all your debts from smallest to largest. Commit to making the minimum repayments on all of those debts to avoid any late fees and penalties. With the smallest debt that you’ve got owing, start attacking that one with a minimum amount of extra repayments that you’re going to commit to on a weekly, fortnightly, monthly, whatever it is level, maybe weekly because you can actually get into the habit of doing it.
And it’s easier, I find it’s easier to chunk money into smaller amounts rather than paying off monthly, but do what works for you there. And then once you’ve finished paying off that debt, celebrate it, cut it up if it’s a credit card, whatever you wanna do, have a ceremony for the credit card, whatever you wanna do, celebrate that. Then the second part, take the minimum repayment from the first debt plus the extra repayments that you were making and add that to the second smallest debt that you’ve, or now it is your smallest debt that you’ve got owing.
So now you’ve got not only the minimum repayment on the second debt, you’ve also got the minimum repayment that you were making on the smallest debt that you now no longer owe, and you’ve got the extra payment that you were making on the smaller debt that you now no longer owe. So you’re effectively making potentially, you know, two lots of extra repayments on that second debt and you keep attacking that one. And what you’ll see is as you, and by the way, your cashflow position hasn’t changed because you’ve just now added what you were already paying on the first debt into the second.
(20:07.254) And that’s why this is a really good one for your psychology because nothing has changed from an actual cash outlay perspective, but the impact you’re now having on paying off your debts is growing exponentially. So once you’ve paid off that second one, you can see that we’re then gonna be adding three times worth of extra payments onto the third debt and so on and so forth. And that’s where that snowball visualization really comes in. And this becomes a really powerful payment method. The trick is to obviously commit to it and stay disciplined. And you’re feeling in a sense of accomplishment as you pay off that birth debt and you’re starting to get that momentum of motivation.
(21:02.926) So as I mentioned earlier, there are a lot of different methods of paying off debts faster. Today we’ve spoken a little bit about what is debt consolidation and how does it work. We’ve also talked about the snowball method of paying off your debts faster as well. I think the biggest one here that if you look at these two methods side by side, one of the biggest differences for me is the psychology behind it.
With the second method, you are actually building up your own positive money, story and positive money psychology around your ability to pay off those debts in your own right by your own budgeting, by your own consistency, by your own discipline and by tracking your progress. With the first method of debt consolidation I personally believe it is a lot easier to fall into the habit of only paying the minimum repayments on the ongoing mortgage because you don’t actually get the money wins of closing that debt off yourself. You’re rolling it into a mortgage as opposed to getting the, as opposed to having that experience of actually paying that single debt off and closing it and celebrating the win yourself.
(22:19.566) So if you are going to do debt consolidation, some key tips that I would have for you is number one, budgeting is key. Creating a detailed budget to ensure that you have the extra money to put towards paying off those debts and to commit to on, as I said, a weekly, fortnightly, monthly basis, whatever works for you, but commit to a set repayment figure on that debt consolidation piece.
And perhaps some of the ways that you might like to structure it if you do go for debt consolidation. As I said, if you can, I would highly suggest splitting it into keeping the existing mortgage separate to the consolidated portion or the consolidated debts that you’re bringing against the home loan or the consolidated debts that you’re bringing against the property. But one thing that you may want to do is have your minimum monthly repayment going out for the first mortgage home loan and having
(23:20.554) and having either a direct credit that you set up, a manual repayment on a weekly, monthly, fortnightly basis where you set the amount that you’re gonna be paying off and make it a reoccurring repayment. You can do that from pretty much all of your banking apps these days. Make that reoccurring repayment go into that consolidated debt and just don’t touch it. There are also a lot of tools on your banking apps these days where you can hide certain loans or certain accounts.
So you might even consider hiding the debt consolidation account as an example so that you can’t see the additional redraw that you have built up in it. You definitely want that consolidated account if we’re talking mortgage terminology to be a variable rate account because that gives you the unlimited ability to make additional repayments with no restrictions. And it also means that when you do get to the point of having that fully paid off, you can close it and have that loan closed without incurring break costs that you may incur if it was a fixed rate, for example. So setting up a budget and setting up a set repayment figure.
And this is where you may wanna work with your mortgage broker to calculate what sort of repayment figure you would have paid on the previous, or basically add up the two minimum repayment amounts from the previous debts before they were consolidated and add that to the minimum repayment or create.
What you may wanna do is work with your mortgage broker as an example to calculate what were the two minimum repayments on the debts before they were consolidated versus basically adding those together and then creating a direct credit into the new home loan account once that’s settled on an ongoing basis to pay that off at that rate.
You can also in some cases, organize your direct debit amounts when you’re signing your loan documents to be a set figure. So that could also be a way to do it. And paying, if you are just looking at generally paying off your mortgage faster, even paying weekly or four nightly is also going to help you pay off your home loan faster because it’s going to get you slightly ahead on your mortgage repayments over the course of the next year. And the reason that is,
(25:37.466) is if you look at how banks generally calculate weekly or fortnightly repayments, and this comes with a caveat is that you need to make sure that you’re selecting this type of repayment when you’re going through your loan documents. What they’ll generally do is they’ll take the monthly figure and divide it by four for a week or take the monthly figure and divide it by two for a fortnight. Now technically that’s not how you calculate a week or a fortnight.
How you would calculate that is taking the monthly figure, timesing it by 12 months, and then dividing it by 52 weeks or dividing it by 26 fortnights. When we divide the month by four or divide the month by two, we get 24 fortnightly repayments instead of 26, which means those repayment amounts are actually higher than a technical fortnight.
Over the course of a year, you end up with two extra fortnightly repayments into your mortgage and from a lot of the calculations I’ve done, it generally works out to save you about three years off the life of your loan. So it is a massive one to look at if you are wanting to accelerate the repayment on your existing mortgage.
(27:03.394) So while we are here, let’s just talk about a couple of other strategies that you can use to even pay off your own home loan faster. And this also may change depending on whether or not it’s an owner occupied or an investment property that you have, or what your future goals are for that property. You may not wanna pay extra into the home loan if you know that this is going to become an investment down the track as an example. It really depends on your circumstances.
But some other strategies that you can look at would be obviously just making additional repayments. And if you’ve never used a mortgage repayment calculator to work out how much a small amount of additional repayments would make, in terms of reducing your interest over the life of the loan, I highly, highly encourage you to jump on our website and play around with the additional mortgage calculator. I’ll give you an example of even just paying off an extra $100 a week on your mortgage and what that can benefit you and how much that can benefit you by in the long term.
(28:08.734) All right, so if we had, let’s use that exact same scenario before. We had a $600,000 home loan with a 30-year loan term at a 6% interest rate. If we decide to make $100 worth of additional repayments over the life of the loan, I’m gonna start that again, because I think this would be a good video one.
All right, so let’s start with the example that we had before of a $600,000 home loan. Let’s say you’ve got 30 years on your home loan, and you just pay the standard monthly repayments on a 6% interest rate. Currently, your approximate ongoing repayments, oh.
(29:05.006) Okay, so if we use the example before, let’s say you had a $600,000 home loan on a 30 year loan term and you’re making monthly repayments at a 6% interest rate per annum. If you just make the standard repayment, your current monthly repayments will be 3,597. If you top that up by $100 extra per month, you will save $58,000 over the life of the loan and two years off your mortgage. But what if we said that you paid $100 extra off per week?
So now that has increased your repayment amount from 3,600 if we just round it up to basically $4,000. It’s a little bit over. That will actually save you $192,000 off your home loan and seven years off the length of time that it takes you to pay it off. So instead of taking 30 years to pay off your loan, you’re paying it off in 23. You’ve saved nearly 200 grand by just making $100 worth of additional repayments per week. So you can see how much of an impact that has and paying weekly or fortnightly at that accelerated amount by either dividing the monthly figure by four or by two has a very, very similar effect.
So that’s one of the easiest ways that you can pay your mortgage off faster. And you can see also when we’re talking about things like debt consolidation and the snowball method of debts, how much those additional repayments on a consistent basis, because it’s compound interest working for us that is helping us this time. You can see how much the consistency of the additional repayments will help us to really start to accelerate and snowball the debt repayment.
And the good thing about compound interest and compounding of anything and I’d highly recommend if you haven’t done so read the book The Compound Effect by Darren Hardy. It is phenomenal, changed my life. I didn’t skip a gym session for months until I slacked off. But in compound with compounding what we’re thinking about here is it may feel like a very, very small change initially but what’s happening is over time
(31:13.894) every single additional repayment that you have made has reduced the amount of interest charged slightly. So by adding on a weekly basis more and more additional repayments we are exponentially and if you think about that curve graph that you may have learned about in high school in maths that sort of u-curve graph where it increases really, really slowly at the start and then it increases exponentially as the compound interest works for us.
That’s what we’re doing here, but effectively in reverse in terms of paying down the debts and getting charged less and less interest. So that sort of comes to, that brings us to a close on today’s episode. I really hope that was helpful for a few people there. We went through, you know, obviously the debt consolidation and a little bit around the maths as to why that works. And apologies, I used to be a maths.
So for me, I love getting into the nitty gritty of how things work and why. But today we’ve spoken obviously about debt consolidation, what it is, who it can work for, what the pros and cons of it are and how to do it properly if you are going to do it. The second option that we spoke about is being able to use the snowball method, but not consolidating your debts, but using the snowball method to pay your debts off from smallest to largest and get those money wins in.
And the third thing we spoke about was just some general mortgage assistance in terms of paying off your mortgage faster by making slight tweaks in either the repayment frequency or the additional repayment amounts that you can add on top of your mortgage repayment. What I’ll do is I’ll add in the calculator to the show notes so that you can jump in and have a play around with your own mortgage calculations and see what the additional repayments can do for you.
And if you’ve got any questions on this episode or you’d like to jump into looking at your existing debts and maybe ask some questions around some different strategies, I would be more than happy to assist. I really hope you got something out of today’s episode and I look forward to speaking with you all next week. Thanks.
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